Paul until I get my hands on a set then I don't know. I'm considering doing a very slim line outside frame - but will reserve judgment until I've done some more drawings to work out minimum radius.
Roll-wagen project
- Thread starter jameshilton
- Start date
I've just knocked up a drawing showing the wheelsets within the 'inside' of the frame - and shown that with an inside frame I reckon it will negotiate R1. As that's not necessary I will also investigate the restrictions if I use an outside framed bogie...
I've also added the 'width' of the LGB standard gauge 'load' wagon on the top left 'end on' sketch - even though it doesn't tower above, it will look 'perched up high', very much the character of these wagons in practice.
I've also added the 'width' of the LGB standard gauge 'load' wagon on the top left 'end on' sketch - even though it doesn't tower above, it will look 'perched up high', very much the character of these wagons in practice.
Problem is with the very limited clearance on the axle ends, which you can see on your diagram above, it's difficult to get a long enough bearing to give a good bearing surface. If it's too thin it'll wear away the axle suprisingly quickly. Use an inside bearing and you can have nice wide bearings that will spread the load and last much longer. I use Gauge one bearings as they have the same axle diameter as the GRS wheels and there's only a thin insulating insert on the wheel so far less risk of the plastic deforming and the wheel going wonky as you pull it off or press it back on. Some of the LGB metal wheels seem to be a plastic axle unit with a metal axle down the centre, only exposed at the end bearing surface, and then metal tyres.jameshilton said:
I'll try to find and measure up a set of the GRS ones as a comparison this afternoon.
A word of waarning with inside bearings on the LGB wheelsets.
The LGB wheels are force fitted onto the axles, but in defference to LGB quality, they do have a crimped arrangement on the axle to allow the force fitted wheel to stay in place.
It is therefore [strike]b*****[/strike] very difficult to slide a brass tube or brass bearing over the crimped section, unless you go for something that has larger diameter.
Don't ask me how I know...........
The LGB wheels are force fitted onto the axles, but in defference to LGB quality, they do have a crimped arrangement on the axle to allow the force fitted wheel to stay in place.
It is therefore [strike]b*****[/strike] very difficult to slide a brass tube or brass bearing over the crimped section, unless you go for something that has larger diameter.
Don't ask me how I know...........
I have dabbled with the idea of a Rollblock Wagon for some time. My difficulty has always been the Standard Gauge Wagon that will sit on it. What I need is a fairly vintage looking open wagon and getting a drawing for an East German Wood sided open has proved the stumbling block. I even have a G3 longish wheel base chassis that I picked up cheep at GRS to go under it so would only need to build the body. Easy peasy if I get the drawing.
JonD.
JonD.
Still on the subject of wheels
Alternative is to buy the Brandbright sets in 32mm and cut the axle in half, re-setting it to 45 mm gsuge with some plastic tube.
I did this on the front bogie of the 10-wheeler in my avatar. For me it gave the added advantage of retaining the axle current pickup arrangement.
Alternative is to buy the Brandbright sets in 32mm and cut the axle in half, re-setting it to 45 mm gsuge with some plastic tube.
I did this on the front bogie of the 10-wheeler in my avatar. For me it gave the added advantage of retaining the axle current pickup arrangement.
Here's the GRS 24.5 mm wheels
3mm diameter on the ends and the centre section is 6.3mm so probably spec as 6.5
Comparison to an Otto chassis
3mm diameter on the ends and the centre section is 6.3mm so probably spec as 6.5
Comparison to an Otto chassis
Paul - thanks!
Due to the extraordinary generosity of Mike (dutchelm) and Mel (yb281) I should have two pairs of Feldbahn axles on their way in the next week or so, so I'll start experimenting with them.
As for bearings, I was thinking I'd find some brass tube of the right diameter, and then let it into holes in a plasticard side frame - as the LGB wheels are not pin point bearings. The other thing to bear in mind is that the inside of the picture above is the minimum space - in face the top and bottom sections are 'I' beams so you get a bit of space 'inside' the I so to speak. I think some trials will be the only way to tell - and I suspect with a bit of tinkering on bogie position and bogie wheelbase I should be able to get it to go around R1s. We'll see - it's a fun, low cost project as I don't have to splash out on a 'load' until I've got a roll-wagen I'm happy with
Due to the extraordinary generosity of Mike (dutchelm) and Mel (yb281) I should have two pairs of Feldbahn axles on their way in the next week or so, so I'll start experimenting with them.
As for bearings, I was thinking I'd find some brass tube of the right diameter, and then let it into holes in a plasticard side frame - as the LGB wheels are not pin point bearings. The other thing to bear in mind is that the inside of the picture above is the minimum space - in face the top and bottom sections are 'I' beams so you get a bit of space 'inside' the I so to speak. I think some trials will be the only way to tell - and I suspect with a bit of tinkering on bogie position and bogie wheelbase I should be able to get it to go around R1s. We'll see - it's a fun, low cost project as I don't have to splash out on a 'load' until I've got a roll-wagen I'm happy with
I'm sure it'll be good. I've just seen how tight it is on a friends models of L&M transporters in 7mm scale and with R1 corners you might need every mm you can get 
Rollwagen R&D thread!
Rollwagen R&D thread!
Different prototype Alan - but tons of detail that I can use as inspiration as I don't have any photos of my OBB prototype Thank you!!
Thank you!!
James, another slightly tangential thought (albeit one that might not sit with your Austrian theme) is to go with transporter bogies (rollbocke). There was an article on making them in one of the last issues of LGB Depesche (134 I think). The guy used the feldbahn wheelsets with inside frames, and cut off the axle ends back to the hub. Even if you don't want to go down the transporter bogie path, his bogie design might be suitable for your rollwagen. If you can't get hld of the issue of Depesche pm me and I will scan it and email it to you from work on Monday.
Michael - thanks! Sounds interesting - I had considered it, as the StLB used them - but unless I get a proper scale standard gauge wagon I'm not sure it would have enough of an impact.
I've dug out the I beam dimensions and reckon that as long as I can get my bogies to fit within the I beam, then I can still do R1...
Well thanks to various sources, the forum and a few months work on and off today I finished the basic chassis and the bogies... There is still a LONG way to go, working out a method of attaching the bogies for maximum stability is next on my list, then moving onto detailing the chassis.
The I beams are Plastruct section, 15.9mm high - 36cm long. The bogies are 3mm thick plasticard with axle holes cut into the bottom edge and then a keep plate glued on. Simple - and this wagon won't see a lot of traffic or support a lot of weight, but I'll have to watch it for wear. The cross members are both 1mm and 3mm plasticard - end ones are the 1mm built up in various parts - the middle ones simply 3mm strips.
I don't always put the small updates on a project like this on here - but interested parties should note the blog is often bang up to date as I use my phone to upload at the end of every modelling session!
http://ejklr.blogspot.com
The I beams are Plastruct section, 15.9mm high - 36cm long. The bogies are 3mm thick plasticard with axle holes cut into the bottom edge and then a keep plate glued on. Simple - and this wagon won't see a lot of traffic or support a lot of weight, but I'll have to watch it for wear. The cross members are both 1mm and 3mm plasticard - end ones are the 1mm built up in various parts - the middle ones simply 3mm strips.
I don't always put the small updates on a project like this on here - but interested parties should note the blog is often bang up to date as I use my phone to upload at the end of every modelling session!
http://ejklr.blogspot.com
Now that gives me an idea as I have some of those girders and the GRS wheels. I was going to build a container crane but with the demise of Neils layout I might have a look at some Harz Rollwagen, (after the railcar, Om models etc etc )
)
While you have your copy of Schmalspuring open, just flick across to the photos section where, if memory serves, you will find a photo of a narrow gauge steam loco returning to its home depot after a rebuild. It is being carried on a standard gauge flat wagon ... which is in turn on ng transporters ...
... now there's a little modelling challenge for you!
... now there's a little modelling challenge for you!
David, yes that's a very memorable photo, there are several in Bahn Im Bild 43 as well, all taken on the StLB if I remember correctly...
The StLB is proving quite inspiring for the EJ&KLR at present... More on that later!
The StLB is proving quite inspiring for the EJ&KLR at present... More on that later!