Roll-wagen project

[jameshilton]

Hi guys - I'm pondering another project - and wondered about building a roll-wagen... something 'like' this...
http://www.modelleisenbahn.com/p/86/34595.jpg

Rather than use standard size LGB wheelsets I wondered how big the feldbahn wheels are - to lower the centre of gravity. What are my other options? Is there an American or European modern bogie image wagon in 1:29 that uses smaller diameter wheels than LGB (which by my measurements are about 25.5mm rolling diameter) that I could then use the bogies from as well?

Any help MUCH appreciated

I'll probably use a standard LGB wagon like this (http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-40883-obb-high-side-gondola-2692-p.asp) as < Link To http://www.dragon-gscale....la-2692-p.asp) as the load with standard gauge buffers, as I think a full on standard gauge wagon would, despite being prototypical, just look odd! With that in mind I'm not sure what 'gauge' my roll-wagen will be, I'm just starting to do some proof of concept sketches and some rough CAD drawings.

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Chaps - I have answer one...
http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-67343-frr-wheel-set-metal-2-pieces-2042-p.asp < Link To http://www.dragon-gscale....al-2-pieces-2042-p.asp

20mm diameter for the Feldbahn wheelsets.
Anyone help me with the American or European outline stock? Does anything exist of a similar size?

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Just found 17mm on Champex-Linden's site...
http://www.champex-linden.de/cl_pr_zt-modellbahnen.htm < Link To http://www.champex-linden...pr_zt-modellbahnen.htm

 

[peterbunce]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Hi Jamers, Brandbright do 20mm 45mm gauge wheels: 2 axles for £6.25 + post

Have a look under wheels, then price list from
http://www.brandbright.co.uk/

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Peter - that's wonderful, thankyou!! Cheap too compared with LGB.

Grootspoor do a ready to run model of the smallest Roll-wagen for £130 - I'd hope to be able to knock something up for a fraction of that
http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...om/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=34005 < Link To http://translate.google.c...%3Fproducts_id%3D34005

 

[DoctorM]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Hi Jamers, Brandbright do 20mm 45mm gauge wheels: 2 axles for £6.25 + post

Have a look under wheels, then price list from
http://www.brandbright.co.uk/

Don't Brandbright wheels short the rails through the axle? - I thought they were uninsulated and only used by RCers and live steamers.

 

[JonathanJ]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Haven't got any drawings of Austrian ones, but metre gauge Harz roll-wagens have a load floor 510mm above rail, and the wheels are between 550and 600mm rolling diameter - I'd guess 580mm, which is a common measurement for some arcane reason.

IP engineering will sell you 45mm gauge wheels in 20, 24 and 30mm diameter, but my preference n low-cost metal wheels is for accucraft - the wheels on their L&B stock are 25mm (W&L has 30mm) and readily available as spares (part Z4).

J.

 

[hornbeam]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

What points are you using? Tenmille do some as well, but 25mm Brandbright now offer 20mm ( or smaller as per the ones used in their hudson tipper kits) ones insulated I think the wheels are nylon. Maybe worth calling them. Reason I ask about points is lgb won't bounce in the frog as they have really deep flanges.

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Jonathan do you have drawings of the Harz ones then?

 

[dunnyrail]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

James,
Bachman also do a smaller wheel than standard, I think that they pretty much match the LGB Feldbahn ones. They are for the Tippers etc. Much Cheeper than the LGB ones.
JonD

 

[PaulRhB]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

James
The Harz ones are approximately 520mm diameter, I'll scan and email you a small drawing

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Paul - excellent - I think you have my email address already - if not PM me.
The photos I've found of the OBB and Zillertal ones show outside framed narrow gauge bogies inside the frame, but I will source some wheels and mock some things up. I've found some side drawings to confirm sizes and wheel diameters in Schmalspuring Durch Osterreich. Once I've knocked up my own sketch I'll upload it here for anyone else interested. I've also started sketching construction and detail drawings in my sketchbook - check out the post on my blog (link by clicking the photo in my signature).

 

[PaulRhB]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

You should have mail by now GRS also do some very small diameter insulated wheels down to 24.5mm. Look under catalogue, general parts, Rolling stock metal wheelsets
http://www.grsuk.com/index.asp?search/search.php?zoom_query="building+kits" < Link To http://www.grsuk.com/inde...ry=%22building+kits%22

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

I think the Austrian ones use 500mm diameter wheelsets, that scale out about 23mm in 1:22. Smaller wheels will allow a lower centre of gravity. I have confirmed with Brandbright that there wheelsets are NOT insulated, and despite the website, only do down to 24.5mm diameter. Useful confirmation for other track powered modellers.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

I have a wheel fetish and have spent a lot of time researching available wheelsets for 45mm.

LGB Feldbhan are the only regularly available 20 mm diameter ones that I have found (have never looked at the Champex Lindbhan site).

Bachmann small wheels are 24.5 mm dia.

Brandbright wheels need to be researched with care - their own ones are not insulated.

GRS have a selection, but I don't think any of them are their own make - in other words, you'll find the same stuff elsewhere.

I've used the Feldbhan wheels for loco pony trucks, as they are metal with plastic inserts so can work with plunger pick-ups

 

[steve parberry]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Here are 20mm spoked wheels just need your own 3mm axle so can be any gauge you want

http://www.glendalejunction.co.uk/BinnieEng.html

 

[jameshilton]

Re:Roll-wagen project - wheel sizes??? HELP NEEDED!!

Hmmm I'm thinking the LGB ones are the ones to go for to ensure smooth running on LGB track as I don't want bouncing over the frog with any of these alternatives having a more conventionally sized flange!? Is that the general consensus?

 

[jameshilton]

I've been doing some sketches to work out sizing, and have shared it below to help any other modellers in the future as it captures critical dimensions. I'm basing mine on one of the 10 OBB 4 axle ones, 8000mm in length.

I've shown it against a standard LGB van, and with a load of one of the LGB 'standard gauge' models - a bit of a comprimise, but probably a sensible one at this stage. The standard gauge wagon is another project in itself, as I suspect it will be a bit more involved than some of Mel's lovely bashes for the WGLR as I don't think I could use the Thomas coach chassis.

Those that haven't seen these in use check out James Waite's inspiring photos of the Waldviertalbahn around Gmund in the 1970s... http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/133 This really does make my proposal look silly with the LGB standard gauge wagon load - however it's my railway yada yada and it'll be a decent start I think and different enough from most lines to be noticeably Austrian narrow gauge straight away!

 

[jameshilton]

Could a mod please either move this to rolling stock or kitbashing rather than General G-scale now my initial questions are answered please?

 

[PaulRhB]

The only issue with lgb axles might be doing the inside bearings for the rollwagen, as they are mainly plastic in the centre be very careful to avoid twisting or they'll go back on wonky. What are you going to use for the bearings?