Track Power Issue

[FurkaSOCal]

I recently acquired about 100 feet of very weathered track from a friend and started an outdoor layout for the first time. The track is all LGB 100% brass and had been sitting outside for quite a while and was in poor condition. After some considerable cleaning I now have largely smooth and trouble free operations except for a few bad sections. I measured in a few places around the track and despite being fed from only one location I have very little voltage drop around the layout. My current issues are mostly visible at night when the lights on the cars flicker in some spots and occasionally the locomotive will shudder in some sections.



Should I consider soldering on some jumpers? if so What size wire should I use and what type of solder?

or

Should I consider running a main bus and feeders.If so what size wires should I used in this case?



Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[trammayo]

Hello and welcome. There are all sorts of ways to improve conductivity/connections on track - as others will, no doubt, inform you.

The first thing I would do is test for continuity using a simple test meter or, even, a suitable (as in voltage) light bulb in a lamp holder with a pair of wires.

I used track clamps in places but, for the majority of my "dodgy" rail joints I drill through the conectors with a 2mm drill bit, clean up the outside of were you have drilled, and then screw in 2mm stainless steel screws - a very economical fix.

If you have switches on your layout, then yes, I would consider running another feed (or feeds).

Don't ask me about feed wire size because I have forgotten all I knew about wire gauges. A good quality automotive twin cable might do as it will carry 10 amps or more.

I use domestic mains cable outside but that's where the difference in our cultures lets me down as we are all metric here and cables are single strand. Flexible cables are still stranded but the the single strand mains is better.

Good luck!

 

[dunnyrail]

Certainly as Mick says Track Clamps will help as would Bonding with Wire. I made my layout into sections with a Feed at each end and switched so that any problems can be isolated to that section. From the sound of things a couple of sections would be more than adequate. As for Bonding I have used wire or single cable from heavy duty multi strand cable, this works well and is unobtrusive once it has weathered. Multi core Car Wire is ok but tends to be a bit on the karge side and will be a problem to rsolder in place if it comes unhinged due to weathering whereas Brass or Copper Sinfpgle strabpnd can be cleaned up again if the worse happens. You will need a heavy iron to heat the LGB Rail in the order of 80-100 Watt.

As for the flickereing lights it could be dirt or possibly some dampness on the rail from dew in the evening. If dirt an LGB Track Rubber will sort that nucely. If dew make a plate with a handle and a bit of old Carpet Tile, this can be used to rub along the track drying off any dampness. 16mm guys use these all the time to remove Oil Deposits which affect traction!

 

[Gavin Sowry]

You will need a heavy iron to heat the LGB Rail in the order of 80-100 Watt.

I'll second that... and you are wasting your time if the wind is blowing.

A small tip when soldering.... pick the iron up by its handle (that's the cold end).

 

[PhilP]

Wot the others have said!

You may also have slightly dirty wheels on your stock (where power is picked up for lights).. Cleaning of the tyres (area that contacts the rail) and the back of the wheels (if carbon brushes are used) may help.

If you have bulbs (rather than LED's) in your stock, and they dim over one section of track, then you have a connectivity problem over that section. This can sometimes be cured by squeezing the joiners from above with a large pair of pliers.

I am assuming you cleaned the rail-ends, and applied a little 'conductive' grease or Copaslip to the joints?

Sounds like you have made an excellent start! Welcome to the Forum!
PhilP.

 

[mike]

Track clamps will help with bad conections as would mutipull power feeds .. as others surgest

 

[Paul M]

I'll second that... and you are wasting your time if the wind is blowing.

A small tip when soldering.... pick the iron up by its handle (that's the cold end).

Not to be attempted after Christmas Sprouts then

 

[St A & M Rly]

As above
I have about 200ft of Stainless 332 track. With ONE FEED. All the track joints are clamps and have little issues with voltage drop. If I do a tighten of the clamp is normally all that is needed. This stays out all year here in Scotland and the first running session if often only a 10 min check befor running.

Use a loco with skate picks ups as this will help keep the travk cleaner. Wheels roll over the track and can pick up any dirt. Then the wheels show as problems at any point on the track....a thing to check.....Skates rubb over the rail head helping to keep the rail head clean

As for cleaning, the one point that is bad on The St A & M Rly is below an apple tree. I use a Scotch bright pad . This is mounted on a bit of 2x1 the end of the bit of 2 x 1is a 2” piece of plastic waste drain pipe some 4” long across the end ( at 90deg to the 2x1j this is cut so the end of the wood is inside the pipe. The pipe is fixed to the end of the wood with a single wood screw. this gives a rounded surface for the scotchbright to sit on. The scotchbright is fixed to the pipe with a coupe of cable ties, It moves over the track joints with out catching. The Mk l was just the end of the 2x1 and caught all the joints and wore out very quickly as it only had a edge of the wood as a contact. Point contact in any form normally give problems The round pipe gets more Scotchdright in contact with the rail.

Scotchbright is a none metallic pan scoured, have a Look by or under the kitchen sink and “acquire” one when domestic authorities ( DA) are not looking.

Or go shopping with DA and throw a pack in the basket as you push the trolly down the household cleaning Isle . you may get some brownie points for helping with shopping / groceries..... then again you may not

Hope this was helpful and made a dark day brighter

Amacf Scotland

 

[Madman]

All excellent suggestions. When I was using track power I soldered jumpers across every rail joint. A backbreaking task but worth the effort in the end.

Or, you can simply come over to the dark side and convert to battery power. Much simpler than you would think.

Since you are on our side of the pond, I would suggest you have a look at G Scale Graphics site. Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask is contained there.

https://www.gscalegraphics.net

 

[Zerogee]

As others have said, really sounds like a continuity issue, especially of you're just using the push-fit joiners. Railclamps would be my advice too, a lot easier than soldering though of course more expensive... as with everything, time/effort and money go in inverse proportion - the more you can spend of one, the more you can economise on the other.

Also, welcome to GSC!

Jon.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

My guess is you have a few joints that have poor conductivity but are having trouble locating them.

First, when you tested the voltage to check for problems, did you put a 3 or 4 amp load at the "far end" (electrically) of the layout? Without doing this, the measurements are basically meaningless (except of course no voltage at all).

You really cannot isolate poor connections with a voltmeter without applying a load, and making that load go "through" all your connections.

Also, I'll bet your power is set up in a loop, i.e. every piece of track can actually receive power from 2 different directions/paths.

Please read the "clock problem" part of this page: https://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=377&Itemid=420

Again, I'll bet you have 1 or 2 problems, not a whole bunch.

Greg

 

[Dan]

I mounted an amp meter on a train car with a 10 ohm resistor to create 2.4 amps of current (track has 24 volts DC power). When the current drops, one of the rails is losing power for sure. However due to my layout being a loop, I mark this spot and continue to find the other drop from the other end. Power loss in a loop is 2 bad connections!!!!!

 

[PhilP]

I mounted an amp meter on a train car with a 10 ohm resistor to create 2.4 amps of current (track has 24 volts DC power). When the current drops, one of the rails is losing power for sure. However due to my layout being a loop, I mark this spot and continue to find the other drop from the other end. Power loss in a loop is 2 bad connections!!!!!

Neat idea!
Think I will have to copy it..

Thanks for sharing,
PhilP

 

[St A & M Rly]

Yep
I often thought of fitting a car lamp on the loco to show the s@me as the ammeter. 20 w for 12v to 40 W for 24 v Would show a change in track joint
Voltage is handy but by allowing amps to flow shows if a high resistance is on a joint the light would dim
Never got round to it... like the otherxxxxxxxxxx projects. Amacf

 

[PhilP]

Yep
I often thought of fitting a car lamp on the loco to show the s@me as the ammeter. 20 w for 12v to 40 W for 24 v Would show a change in track joint
Voltage is handy but by allowing amps to flow shows if a high resistance is on a joint the light would dim
Never got round to it... like the otherxxxxxxxxxx projects. Amacf

After I posted, I thought of those 'half-failed' car headlamp bulbs we all have..
Suitable load, with visual indication built-in..

 

[Hutch]

After I posted, I thought of those 'half-failed' car headlamp bulbs we all have..
Suitable load, with visual indication built-in..

OR an old car horn mounted on a flatcar (with track pickups of course), then you can not only torque up your neighbors, but sit with a refreshment and hear the failing area.

Preferable executed early on January second morning.

Submitted with tongue in cheek, will probably inadvertantly bite the aforementioned tongue.

Happy New Year to all.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

When debugging a loop, break the connection at the far end... then it's easier to find the suspect.

The more load you put on the rails, the greater the voltage drop across the joint that is not performing, i.e. easier to find

I have an 8 amp load, for my 24v DCC.

Greg

 

[Paul M]

OR an old car horn mounted on a flatcar (with track pickups of course), then you can not only torque up your neighbors, but sit with a refreshment and hear the failing area.

Preferable executed early on January second morning.

Submitted with tongue in cheek, will probably inadvertantly bite the aforementioned tongue.

Happy New Year to all.

How about a looped tape of Christmas records to really mess up neighbourly relations?

 

[St A & M Rly]

I was once manning a stand at a railway show. The next stand had a well known manufacturer who was demonstrating the sound card in their locos.
The first time you hear “all aboard “ or “track one showing a clear” it is ok but at the end of the day...... by the end of day 3..... grrrrrrr growl ...

Amacf

 

[dunnyrail]

I was once manning a stand at a railway show. The next stand had a well known manufacturer who was demonstrating the sound card in their locos.
The first time you hear “all aboard “ or “track one showing a clear” it is ok but at the end of the day...... by the end of day 3..... grrrrrrr growl ...

Amacf

Aha the joys of sound at a Show with overenthusiastic demonstrations and too high a speaker level.