Sabre Steam Annette as Overhauled and with Short Blast Pipe

[thumper]

Tuesday past, I had my first opportunity to run Sabre Steam Annette No. 32 as overhauled.

The axle pump was rebuilt as was the steam banjo and the blower valve was silver soldered to the banjo to eliminate safety issues with too few threads on the blower valve, soft solder joints were redone as was plumbing relating to the saddle tanks and axle pump. In addition, and maybe most importantly, the blast nozzle was shortened by approximately 1". The resulting draft was increased substantially and slow speed performance improved even without modification of the grate. Finally, all smokebox, boiler and cab metalwork was refinished with automotive grade primer and finish coat.

I'll be installing a new shorter blast pipe in Annette No. 6 and am anxious to see how operations improve.

Here's a link to the Youtube video I just posted. http://www.youtube.com/user/thumper12225#p/a/u/0/yrnFlsYShrE
This locomotive will be posted for sale on MyLargeScale.com

For those who have otherwise inoperable Sabre Steam locos, there is hope as the boiler and chassis are both well manufactured. The rest of the model can, in the right hands, be redone so that you have an attractive and serviceable model.

I'm sure, although I haven't asked, Bob Weltyk of Weltyk's Whistles will produce short blast pipes for your locomotive(s) for a reasonalbe price. Because there are different versions of the blast pipe as manufactured by Sabre Steam, a good photo would be required.

Good luck,

Will

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

Looking good Will. I'm deep in to the rebuild of Annette No. 40 at the moment, and have literally just finished installing the new axle pump.

 

[John Morgan]

Tony,
When I cleaned the ash out the axle pump on my Annabel before I fitted a water filter I was suprised to see no O ring on the pump ram. Is this normal ? [there is an O ring around the gland nut]
I know there is on my Sweet Pea but thats a different kettle of fish so to speak.

John

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

When I cleaned the ash out the axle pump on my Annabel before I fitted a water filter I was suprised to see no O ring on the pump ram. Is this normal ?

There would have been a seal, of sorts. Both of the axle pumps I have here had a piece of PTFE plumber's tape wrapped around the pump ram to form the seal. Not surprisingly, and after only a few hours running, the tape disintegrated as it was simply not designed to do that job. A picture of an axle pump going through the failure process is shown below, and you will see the remains of the tape being extruded from the gland nut around the ram.

The pump MUST have an O-ring to provide a seal. Not to stop water getting out (which it also does) but most importantly to stop air getting in. Once any air gets in to the pumped water circuit the pump will cease to operate at a sufficient pressure to overcome the boiler pressure, as it is easier for the pump to just compress the air.

One of the pumps I have here also had a coil of swarf inside it, which wasn't helping matters at all.

On the upgrades I am doing I have replaced the Sabre pump (which is not much better than useless in the later locos) with a guaranteed and tested item from DJB Engineering, producing up to 200psi on the output side. Trials with rebuilt Annette 035 show that the pump is more than adequate for the job, and can fill the boiler to the top if the bypass valve is left closed for too long. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it makes for a watery exhaust for a while as the excess water is ejected. A photo of this loco's pump arrangement can be seen at the bottom of this page: http://www.rhoshelyg.me.uk/Sabre.html

 

[scaleandy]

Hi All,

After everything that has happened with regards to Sabre Steam, finally there is something very positive to bring to your attention. My Annabel is production number 23, so it was built by the late DC. It is also my first (and only) coal fired loco. I thought it was a brilliant little engine, but after a while I came to realise that my little loco wasn't the easy firing engine that other manufacturers' customers enjoyed. Recently I had the engine serviced by Gordon Watson from Argyle Locomotive Works here in Australia. He performed the following improvements;
- the grate is a"Rosebud" type, 4.5mm thick steel plate with 3.5mm holes countersunk underneath
- the exhaust nozzle is now 1.2mm diameter and 21mm from the tip to the chimney entry, and aligned correctly /centered
- the blower nozzle tip is 0.2mm diameter
- the sealing of smokebox and front end mounting method improved

The difference these changes have made are remarkable. I no longer have to haul a heavy load to get the fire to draw, in fact three four carriages in the consist and a little blower and we chug along very nicely. Blower can bring a fire back from 12psi. Also, I no longer have to clear the grate all the time, this is due to the new style grate that retains heat and reduces air flow, hence all coal gets burnt to a fine powder. The only thing I do do, after the first 25 minutes of running is give the fire a gentle rake then again every 10-15 minutes or so, whenever the fire gets a little sulky. Run times of an hour and a half are easily achieved.

Here is a video that I hope goes some way to conveying my experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfcn...r our most helpful and enjoyable discussions.

 

[400Parker]

It's very interesting to compare your latest video with the one you posted when the loco was new, Andy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQQGFsJJ1I&NR=1 < Link To http://www.youtube.com/wa...GFsJJ1I&NR=1
Yes, the loco ran (like mine) but it went like a rocket (like mine). The modifications have slowed it down nicely.
Well done to you and Gordon. We'll wait and see what Tony comes up with after he's finished Annette no. 40.
I'll have to invite Chris Bird up to do some of his excellent videographing (is that the word?) when we are able to run both no. 7 and no. 40 here (and anyone else who fancies turning up with a Sabre Steam loco or a Rhos Helyg rebuild).
Steve

 

[John Morgan]

Andy,
Have you any photos of the new grate ?
John

 

[Drummond]

I have Rhos Helyg onside to do mine, but it's March at the earliest. In the meantime, it's sat in the shed, under a very large cloud. However, I bought (secondhand) a John Shawe Fowler, last week. Not only does it run without fault, and slowly as well, but JS heard about my hassles and offered to rebuild my Sabre.
As they say- a result! So, Steve, it looks like I'll be around as well, with no 0.

 

[400Parker]

Hello John! It's been posted somewhere else on the forum, but here's the Annette grate Gordon sent me. It's beautifully made, but that's to be expected from Argyle Loco Works. I photographed it before I drilled the holes for the retaining pin. Every loco is different so Gordon didn't want to drill holes for me that would be in the wrong position. It was easy enough to mark where they were needed and then drill through the copper.
It's such a nice grate I fell I ought to polish the copper after every run!
Cheers!
Steve

 

[John Morgan]

Steve,

Thanks for the photo. Now looking at it I would have thought that there is not enough room under the grate for the ash to go?
John

 

[400Parker]

That is the complete grate and ash pan, John. It replaces the whole of the Sabre Steam unit.
Steve

 

[Drummond]

There was never a result with the Sabre grate- my no 0 has three times the ash space below the firebars, nearly 1cm, to the no 18. I discussed this with Rob, who did not know.

I think that the additional heat radiated from the new grate will be better for the loco, as with the Shawe loco- after 90 mins, there was only a dusting of fine ash in the grate. No, I did not use the pricker!

Tim

 

[scaleandy]

Hi John,

Compared to the previous grate, the replacement Rosebud version works so efficiently that there is no real volume of ash to speak of. The few times I rake the fire and give the grate a couple of shakes very little white powder ash falls out. I do however, have a rather lovely smear of ash on my carriages so I reckon whatever ash is in the fire gets sucked out the smokebox, just like fullsize locos. Regarding ash in the smokebox, if anything there is less ash in there at the end of the run.

Regards,

Andy

 

[taperpin]

John,
There is 7mm between the bottom of the grate and the ash pan ...if you make one you can see that the holes have been counterbored from under neath with a larger drill or countersink,, this ensures ash can fall freely through.

Gordon.

 

[400Parker]

I took a couple of pictures for Richard Bailey ('william') this afternoon of the blast pipe Gordon ('taperpin') sent me last year, together with the water filter Andy Bolle ('scaleandy') recommended, in case anyone else is interested. As Will says above, the shortened blast pipe makes all the difference and makes slow speed running easy. (Sealing the smokebox properly also helped!)
Steve

 

[TL]

Dear Gordon
I have been told about your blast pipes and grate from a Annette owner, please can you let me know if you have any available I have recently got a Annette and although she weems to run well would like to get hold of the grate and blast pipe I have read about

Tony

 

[taperpin]

Tony Hi..
Im sorry but Im not able to supply these items, I made up one to assist Steve intending it as a pattern that anyone could copy if they wanted to, and the same with the blast pipe/exhaust..
but I cannot undertake any additional work right now.

Gordon.

 

[400Parker]

Tony,
I produced a drawing of Gordon's grate for John Morgan and I will e-mail it to you. Gordon explained to me he wasn't in a position to produce these grates in quantity but was happy for people to copy it. If you have the facilities for machining you should be able to turn up a smaller blast pipe for your Annette. It's pretty straightforward, though beyond my resources, which is why I was extremely grateful to Gordon for his help. (The loco runs very well these days Gordon, thank you).
The alternative is to make up a grate similar to the one below, which may be easier. (I found this on a French live steam web site, but I forget which).
Steve

 

[400Parker]

Here's the drawing. I don't know if the detail will be good enough. (Doesn't look too bad now it's posted).
Any comments Gordon? (The drawing doesn't show the holes to be tapered, which they should be. What's the best way to do that? Drill half way through from each side with slightly different size drills, or simply ream out with a tapered reamer?).

 

[3Valve]

Now me, I have been a live steamer in the past but never a coal firer.

Even as a non-coal firer I find this thread fascinating. Some really interesting and beautifully engineered solutions to the Sabre shortcomings, and great to see some Sabre loco's in steam and performing well.

After seeing some of the vids I could be tempted into the dark art of coal firing.