LGB Elias Tram History / Use

[Bombastic]

Hi all, I'm back with some more questions!

I've just been gifted a LGB 2150 (I believe known as the "Feuriger Elias"), and I just realized that I know basically nothing about trams in general and this tram in particular. The model is lovely and I'm looking forward to running it when it arrives, but I'm stumped about the history of this tram and how it would have been used. For such a popular LGB locomotive that was released in several iterations, I'm surprised I'm not finding more articles or photos of the origional. The only information I've been able to dig up so far have been a few photos, such as this lovely cityscape from Brühl circa 1900 (source here):



There seems to be the briefest of discussions about this tram on this forum; My German ist nicht sehr gut, but the little I can read doesn't seem especially helpful for my purposes. There are some lovely photos though:





But that's about all I can find. Probably I'm missing something, which is where I hope someone on this forum can help.

Does anyone have information about the prototype? I'd love to know when this tram was manufactured and how long trams of this general type were in use. I assume this was used exclusively for passenger service; what kind of LGB coaches (or other rolling stock) would be prototypical for it to pull? Would it have shared trackage with goods trains? Was this strictly an urban tram, or could this tram have pulled coaches on a country railway?

Any more information about how to use this model well would be helpful, as it's a really fun locomotive and completely different from my other steam trains. I just hope I can utilize it on my layout in a way that makes sense. Thanks in advance!

 

[dunnyrail]

This link will give you some outline of the OEG where the LGB prototype was used. Steam Trams in particular particularly in Europe hauled both Passenger, Freight and Mixed Passenger Freight trains, this was particularly so on the Vicinal in Belgium where Steam Trams were in use up to the 50’s and later in a Colliery and Stone Railway till possibly late 60’s.

Upper Rhine Railway Company - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

National Company of Light Railways - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In UK they were phased out on Electrification of Tramways with a very few surviving in Industrial use. The Tram thread has quite a bit on them in here.

Stoomtrams

A delightful video of "stoomtrams" in the Netherlands. Probably been viewed by a lot and possibly posted here before. No apologies :) As well as general views, unusually, also a wealth of detail shots that may inspire and aid those who might consider bashing a few likely 16 mm/1:22.5 scale...

www.gscalecentral.net

STEAM TRAMS : is there much interest for them on here?

In light of the highly successful thread:- Trams: is there much interest for them on here? https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/trams-is-there-much-tramway-interest-on-here.305868/page-18#post-499082 I thought that I would add a second similar one to split the Interest as Steam Trams are a...

www.gscalecentral.net

 

[KBR]

This link will give you some outline of the OEG where the LGB prototype was used. Steam Trams in particular particularly in Europe hauled both Passenger, Freight and Mixed Passenger Freight trains, this was particularly so on the Vicinal in Belgium where Steam Trams were in use up to the 50’s and later in a Colliery and Stone Railway till possibly late 60’s.

Upper Rhine Railway Company - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

National Company of Light Railways - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In UK they were phased out on Electrification of Tramways with a very few surviving in Industrial use. The Tram thread has quite a bit on them in here.

Stoomtrams

A delightful video of "stoomtrams" in the Netherlands. Probably been viewed by a lot and possibly posted here before. No apologies :) As well as general views, unusually, also a wealth of detail shots that may inspire and aid those who might consider bashing a few likely 16 mm/1:22.5 scale...

www.gscalecentral.net

STEAM TRAMS : is there much interest for them on here?

In light of the highly successful thread:- Trams: is there much interest for them on here? https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/trams-is-there-much-tramway-interest-on-here.305868/page-18#post-499082 I thought that I would add a second similar one to split the Interest as Steam Trams are a...

www.gscalecentral.net

It is delightful to read about “steam Trams”. Here in Queensland the Rockhampton City Council’s steam tram service ran from 1909 to 1939 using the rare Bordeaux built Purrey steam tram. A reassembled, working Purrey tram runs of a Sunday on a dedicated 1 and a bit km line from the heritage Archer Park rail station museum there. It is the only working Purrey steamer left ion the world (so it’s claimed) being restored to celebrate the Australian Bicentenary in 1988.. The then Qld Gov Railways Chief Engineer H C Stanley recommended the Purrey tram as cleaner, better vehicle for a street railway in the days of horse and carts over the dirty, noisey Baldwin steam motors used in Sydney, New South Wales. Stanley had experienced the Purrey tram in service with the Paris Omnibus Company which used 40 vehicles supplied by the Bordeaux designer/builder Valentin Purrey. Steam trams were widely used in cities and large bustling country towns around Australia in the early 20th century. My mother used the Rockhampton steam trams when a boarding student at the Range Convent as the Botanic Gardens was a nearby tram terminus.

 

[Monty]

Valley Heights Steam Tramway [Valley Heights Rail Museum - VH Steam Tramway] is part of the Valley Heights Rail Museum, Valley Heights, NSW, Australia and has a steam tram [Steam Tram Motor 103A, built in 1891 at Baldwin Locomotive Works, USA.] It is a 0-4-0 saturated steam locomotive, designed specifically for street use and is in regular service.
The Museum publishes a news sheet on its activities, copies of which can be accessed on this link .. Valley Heights Rail Museum - Steam Scene
Enjoy,
Ian

Here are some videos with the loco in action ...

 

[Software Tools]

Steam trams were widely used in cities and large bustling country towns around Australia in the early 20th century.

Ah no, not widely used.

Sydney started using Baldwin style steam trams in 1879 and developed a small "system" with them before electrifying and massively expanding the system from 1893. Some steam trams remained in operation on isolated Sydney suburban routes until 1937 (replaced by trolley buses). In NSW, Baldwin style steam trams were also used in Newcastle (later electrified), Maitland and remote Broken Hill, plus operating on a few short branch railway lines on occasions.

Elsewhere in Australia steam trams were generally a rarity, with a just a handful in Bendigo (Baldwin motors) and Rockhampton (Purrey cars).

 

[Rhinochugger]

Hi all, I'm back with some more questions!

I've just been gifted a LGB 2150 (I believe known as the "Feuriger Elias"), and I just realized that I know basically nothing about trams in general and this tram in particular. The model is lovely and I'm looking forward to running it when it arrives, but I'm stumped about the history of this tram and how it would have been used. For such a popular LGB locomotive that was released in several iterations, I'm surprised I'm not finding more articles or photos of the origional. The only information I've been able to dig up so far have been a few photos, such as this lovely cityscape from Brühl circa 1900 (source here):

View attachment 326757

There seems to be the briefest of discussions about this tram on this forum; My German ist nicht sehr gut, but the little I can read doesn't seem especially helpful for my purposes. There are some lovely photos though:

View attachment 326759
View attachment 326760
View attachment 326761

But that's about all I can find. Probably I'm missing something, which is where I hope someone on this forum can help.

Does anyone have information about the prototype? I'd love to know when this tram was manufactured and how long trams of this general type were in use. I assume this was used exclusively for passenger service; what kind of LGB coaches (or other rolling stock) would be prototypical for it to pull? Would it have shared trackage with goods trains? Was this strictly an urban tram, or could this tram have pulled coaches on a country railway?

Any more information about how to use this model well would be helpful, as it's a really fun locomotive and completely different from my other steam trains. I just hope I can utilize it on my layout in a way that makes sense. Thanks in advance!

Fiery Elias was also modeled in HOe by Eggerbahn, complete with the bogie coaches, back in the late 60s/70s

So, obviously a popular base model, which makes it all the more surprising that there is not much info on t'internet about the original

 

[PhilP]

Isn't there one of these (or something very similar) at one of the heritage railways?
Possibly NYMR?

PhilP

 

[dutchelm]

Piglet has a tram he keeps on the NYMR. I believe it is Dutch or Belgium

 

[MTheStrong]

The Mid Suffolk Railway has a Belgian steam tram loco.

 

[Bombastic]

Fiery Elias was also modeled in HOe by Eggerbahn, complete with the bogie coaches, back in the late 60s/70s

So, obviously a popular base model, which makes it all the more surprising that there is not much info on t'internet about the original

Interesting! For the last couple days I've run various Google searches on "Feuriger Elias" and "Fiery Elias" and variations thereof. Most of the hits photos and discussions of the LGB tram models, with a few hits on a steam train of the same name. It's weird because I've easily found all sorts of results for my other LGB models. Does this tram have a make and model numbers that would be easier to search for?

 

[Software Tools]

Google searches on "Feuriger Elias" and "Fiery Elias" and variations thereof

That's a local nickname for one specific steam motor, so search on it will just keep delivery results for that particular steam tram motor. The system it operated on was the OEG (Oberrheinische Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft), so you might turn up more by using that.

IIRC, 102 was manufactured by Henschel & Sohn. Below are a couple of photos of other H&S steam tram motors...

 

[Bombastic]

That's a local nickname for one specific steam motor, so search on it will just keep delivery results for that particular steam tram motor. The system it operated on was the OEG (Oberrheinische Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft), so you might turn up more by using that.

That's what I needed! Thank you!

 

[Monty]

Piglet has a tram he keeps on the NYMR. I believe it is Dutch or Belgium

Lucie is its name I think.
Ian

 

[dunnyrail]

Piglet has a tram he keeps on the NYMR. I believe it is Dutch or Belgium

The Mid Suffolk Railway has a Belgian steam tram loco.

Both called steam trams but as can be seen from the pictures not quite the real deal. There are only 4 true steam trams in UK as seen at the end of this list, the site is interesting listing World survivors.

Surviving Steam Trams of the World (North West Europe)

SNCV (Vicinal) and Holland well represented in Europe.

 

[dunnyrail]

We rather like Steam Trams around here, these are G/16mm scale and all the real deal.
This is my Gauge 3 Y6 0-4-0 Steam Tram. Runs on 63.5 gauge track on a converted LGB Chassis.

 

[dunnyrail]

Further about Lucie the Cockerill Steam Tram on the NYMR, just been reading Spring 2021 mag and it is mentioned that she and the fact that she was used on a Tramway. My knowledge of her and the other(s) in UK was that they came out of Industrial Service. Link below explains more about her Tramway service. Another spoiler the Surviving Steam Trams site does not appear to show Lucie, I know there is another Lucie type somewhere in UK, possibly even another. Well 3 more actually, at Statfold Barn, North Norfolk Railway and Nene Valley Railway. Plus there is the fake Toby one that I have seen on the Severn Valley Railway, this is a Toby like body bodged onto a Diesel Chassis Worth getting down to the Heritage Raikways bit of the Wiki page about Toby.

Surviving Steam Trams of the World - Cockerill Vertical Boiler Locomotives

Lucie type IV Cockerill

NYMR Home Fleet - Operational

www.nymr.co.uk

Toby the Tram Engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fred2179G]

We rather like Steam Trams around here

Here too (SW Florida.) My live steam Regner Paul [same prototype as the Fiery Elias] and Roundhouse Stanley are shelved with a tram made by GRS from a couple of LGB cabs, glued back-to-back. On the shelf below is a tram and trailer made from a Lionel 0-4-0 boiler, Bachmann 2-4-2 frame, and a Bachmann coach or two. I haven't quite got to grips with that pair, due to Hurricane Ian stopping play.



As we are discussing Fiery Elias, here's a better photo of the Regner live steam version next to the LGB regular tram:

 

[rentren]

Also in Berne, Switzerland, a revieved steam tramway for a while: Berner Tramway-Gesellschaft

The historical steam tramway - search results for images - is in the Swiss Transport Museum in Lucerne, Mobility.