Help with Rx - ESC - Sound Mystery

[WKDOR]

Rik

Many Thanks. Interesting idea, that's just what I was exploring when your post popped up!

Mine is an early Rx102 v110 - no mention of dash 3. I do have a spare that is much more recent (possibly from you or Phil) but also labelled v110 - no mention of dash 3. Where do I look?

My main concern is whether this has actually been done with a Phoenix P8 - they're too expensive to replace if I get it wrong when the rest of it is working nicely.

Del

Many Thanks for both kind offers.

A repair would be attractive if its economic. What would your cost and shipping cost be to UK please?

I'm afraid we still have too many Railboss ESCs to embark on a replacement/upgrade programme!

All the best to both

mike

 

[ge_rik]

Hi Mike
Not sure how you differentiate between Rx102-3 and earlier. Just checked the news section on the Deltang website and it doesn't mention when that update occurred. I can only assume it was after some email correspondence I had with David over soundcards and logic outputs from Rxs during 2015.

PhilP would be able to advise you on any possible conflicts with the Phoenix - as that's his field of expertise. Theoretically, I can't see that it would be a problem. Essentially what you would be doing is grounding the sound input through the Rx102 rather than through the Railboss. You could try putting a 1k resistor in the link between the Rx102 pin and the sound trigger on the Phoenix, but that would be more to protect the Rx102 (as its internal voltage is 3.2v whereas the Phoenix has an internal voltage of 5v).

Rik

 

[ge_rik]

Rik
My main concern is whether this has actually been done with a Phoenix P8 - they're too expensive to replace if I get it wrong when the rest of it is working nicely.
mike

PS - I've interfaced Deltang with a Phoenix 2k2 card without a problem - see https://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/triggering-soundcards-with-deltang.html#phoenix - I assume the P8 would work in a similar way (again PhilP will be able to advise)

 

[WKDOR]

Many Thanks for both of these Rik

You've kindly given me lots to think about. Is there any risk to exposing an early (pre -3) Rx102 to an attempt to do this?

All the best

mike

 

[PhilP]

Many Thanks for both of these Rik

You've kindly given me lots to think about. Is there any risk to exposing an early (pre -3) Rx102 to an attempt to do this?

All the best

mike

This should work..
All the Phoenix cards work in the same way, and are pretty robust. - I like the P8 to work with.
Rik's comment about the 1k resistor is a good idea.

Do you perhaps have a spare Rx102? - You could send it to me, and I could program it for you?

phil@rctrains.co.uk

 

[WKDOR]

Thanks a lot Phil. That's a kind offer.

I'll get back to you in the morning if I may - perhaps by PM?

Best

Mike

 

[Tony Walsham]

If all else fails, you could trigger the bell directly from the Rx102 ( provided it's v110-3 or later). You'd need someone with a Prog3 or Prog4 to reprogram one of the pins on the Rx102 to on/off but it would be a cheaper option than replacing the Railboss if everything else on it is working OK.

Rik

Rik.
How does one go about directly controlling a sound trigger with an Rx102?
I cannot see any reference to the procedure required in the V110-3 instructions.

 

[ge_rik]

Rik.
How does one go about directly controlling a sound trigger with an Rx102?
I cannot see any reference to the procedure required in the V110-3 instructions.

Hi Tony
As with a lot of things on the Deltang website, it's tucked away. On the blurb page for the Rx102 ( http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx102-110.htm ) it says:

8. ON / OFF SWITCHING:
The designated output is normally ON (3.1v) when the controlling channel is LOW, and OFF in other positions.
These pins have on-board 180ohm resistors so limit current to around 12mA.
Connect an Led between the Signal pin and Negative (-).


From v110-3, three channel positions are recognised, LOW, MID and HIGH.
These outputs can also be 'normally off' (idle low) or 'normally on' (inverted).
This makes it more suitable for driving external logic circuits.

The default outputs for the pins are for servos, so they have to be reprogrammed for on/off. Unlike the Rx65s etc., this can't be done with a transmitter such as the Tx20, it can only be done with a Prog3 or Prog4 programmer. A bit of a fiddle but worth the effort. Here's how I did it for one of my locos controlled by an Rx102.
https://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/how-i-reprogrammed-deltang-rx102.html

Rik
PS - I posted this blog entry in March 2015, so (to answer Mike's earlier question), it looks like this feature must have been enabled at around that time.
PPS - In the blog post, I describe using a Prog4. This can be a bit of a pig to set-up but dead easy to use once it has been set-up. The Prog3 doesn't require any setting-up but is a bit of a fiddle to use.

 

[PhilP]

If anyone wants any programming done to their kit, I have the necessary here..

PhilP.

 

[Tony Walsham]

Thank you RIK for the information.
I take it, that turning one servo output into an ON - OFF output will require one channel for one function?
Sadly, not much use to me as I need lots of triggers. I get four separate triggers from two channels at the moment.
Yes, I understand that using an R/C switch will cost more.

 

[ge_rik]

Thank you RIK for the information.
I take it, that turning one servo output into an ON - OFF output will require one channel for one function?
Sadly, not much use to me as I need lots of triggers. I get four separate triggers from two channels at the moment.
Yes, I understand that using an R/C switch will cost more.

Hmmmm..... I've not tried it but I assume it would be possible to program the Rx102 so that one pin of the Rx gives 0v output when a channel goes high and another pin gives 0v when the same channel goes low. So, with a Deltang Tx, you could use the direction switch (Ch3) to trigger one sound when it's flicked in one direction and another sound when flicked in the opposite direction.

I've done this with the Rx65b (eg see https://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/how-i-trigger-mylocosound-effects-with.html ) but not thought of trying it with the Rx102. I don't now tend to use the Rx102 since the Rx65b came out, so it's not something I've played around with. Might give it a try, just out of interest.

Rik

 

[PhilP]

Thank you RIK for the information.
I take it, that turning one servo output into an ON - OFF output will require one channel for one function?
Sadly, not much use to me as I need lots of triggers. I get four separate triggers from two channels at the moment.
Yes, I understand that using an R/C switch will cost more.

Hi Tony,

You may want to take this to a PM (conversation):
How many triggers do you need?
What do you use each channel / trigger for?
What are you triggering?

PhilP.

 

[stockers]

I would keep it here Phil. It might be useful to someone if they can keep with you guys - nobody has to read it all!

 

[Tony Walsham]

G'Day Phil.
My Locosound has five sound triggers and Phoenix four.
I do that now with two triggers each on Ch # 2 and Ch # 4 with my own ESC's, which have four discreet triggers built in. Like the Rx65B but a bit more user friendly although substantially larger
I also offer Kadee uncoupler interfaces using Ch # 5. Using Ch # 5 for Kadees requires a signal reverser in line as the Kadee rotates in the wrong direction.

Sorry RIK, but I don't quite see how you can get two different triggers from just one pin output of an Rx102.
Before I stopped selling the Rx65b's I too had them programed for two triggers on each channel.

For triggers when used with a VIPER, I add appropriate R/C switch(es). MRW http://modelradioworkshop.co.uk/shop/ has a very good selection available. They cost less than the MTroniks version, can handle 2 amps+ on each trigger instead of 50 milliamps.

 

[ge_rik]

Sorry RIK, but I don't quite see how you can get two different triggers from just one pin output of an Rx102..

Hi Tony
No. You'd have to program a different pin for each output - one pin to give 0v when the Ch goes high and another pin to give 0v when the Ch goes low. The two different pins would be responding to the same channel.

Rik

 

[PhilP]

The limiting factors being there are 9 'pins' on the Rx102, and what / how many channels you are using for other things..

I agree the transistor switches are very useful, especially if you want to switch other accessories, with higher current demands.

Note for the less technical:
We are differentiating between the 'channels' used for control between the Tx and Rx, and how-many (and what they do) 'pins' (connections) are available to hang things on..

As an example:
On the Rx65b there are some (pre-programmed) output pins which give a momentary action when selected, and some which give a latched action. - From the same channel and switch action on the transmitter:
Pad 6 - On/Off (Channel 3), Momentary action,3.5v when channel is Low
Pad 7 - On/Off (Channel 3), Momentary action,3.5v when channel is High
Pad 9 - On/Off (Channel 3), Momentary action, 0v when channel is High - can be used to trigger soundcard effects using direction switch (Direction 1)
Pad 10 - On/Off (Channel 3), Momentary action, 0v when channel is Low- can be used to trigger soundcard effects using direction switch (Direction 2)
Pad 11 - On/Off ( Channel 3), Latching action, toggle when channel is High - can be used to turn on interior lighting etc using direction switch (Direction 1)
Pad 12 - On/Off (Channel 3), Latching action, toggle when channel is Low - can be used to turn on interior lighting etc using direction switch (Direction 2)

 

[ge_rik]

As Phil says, the limiting factor with the Rx102 is the number of pins giving outputs. The Rx65b has 15 output pins (or pads) whereas the Rx102 has eight. This could still give you six outputs from three channels (responding to whether each channel is high or low) - assuming that one pin is outputting to the ESC for speed.

Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

I built some 7 channel Rx102-1(AB's) using the extra two pads along the side.
They worked just fine but I could never get 7 channels on a Tx2 working properly
It worked OK but because it had no channel centering facility it meant a loco that worked OK with a 7 channel TX2 could not be used with a 5 channel profile liken profile # 2 without having to re-centre the VIPER ESC's and R/C triggers to the new TX. Bit of a pain so I stopped making them.

 

[ge_rik]

I built some 7 channel Rx102-1(AB's) using the extra two pads along the side.
They worked just fine but I could never get 7 channels on a Tx2 working properly
It worked OK but because it had no channel centering facility it meant a loco that worked OK with a 7 channel TX2 could not be used with a 5 channel profile liken profile # 2 without having to re-centre the VIPER ESC's and R/C triggers to the new TX. Bit of a pain so I stopped making them.

I did prototype a Tx making use of the Ch7 output from the Tx2. Like you, I decided not to go into production because the existing range of Deltang Txs produce random outputs on Ch7 (mirroring Ch2) and so anyone using Ch7 on an Rx which was bound to the new Tx would then find any devices connected to Ch7 outputs would behave erratically if the loco was subsequently bound to a different Deltang Tx.

Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

Hi Rik.

Not to put a fine point on it, the Rx102-1(AB) rx's are less reliable than I would like. Let alone easy to adjust servo reversing and extremities.
How about using one of these repurposed for our use?

Lemon equipment seems very reliable.
As you can see there are 6 x dip switches which could be used for selecting the channel the operator wishes to program.
Adjustments would then be made using the three trim pots along the side.

Likewise I suffer Tx2 module failures. For example, one arrived where the servo movements were all backwards.
Andy Rutter at Micron R/C has been very good at handling warranty claims.
Lemon are working on a 10 channel TX module that should also be usable for us small makers.