Greetings from Southend on Sea……

[Yellowduck]

Hi All

Sorry for the long post……

I have joined for some advice if any are willing to give.

I build automatons and mechanical moving Christmas displays which I use to raise funds for Macmillan each November/December. In 2022 we raised £3400.
Our display is different than most, as children can activate the displays using push buttons to set them in motion, and although fairly simple, they are fun, and the kids (and parents) love them.

Each year I add several new items to the display, and initially, for 2023, thought of building a small ride on train powered by a car battery and motors, running on a track of conduit. The mechanics and track are fairly easy to arrange, but where I fall down is the large track radius that would be needed, and space is a little limited. A friend of mine suggested using a small G Guage set up, which could be controlled by a push button (using a relay timer) so when pressed, the train runs for a minute or so, then stops until the button is pressed again. The electrics are fine as I have this set up on most of my displays.

I would want to keep it as simple as possible, and as cheap as possible, as I fund all the builds myself, and nothing comes from any donations. I was thinking of getting a Christmas starter set (which seems to be around £300) and an extra 20’-30’ of straight track to make an elongated oval. There would be no points or crossings as it would need to be simple and run without issues.

So my questions at this stage are……

We operate the display for 3 hours each evening for approx 30 days. Assuming the button is pressed 50/60 times a night, with each press running the train for 1 minute, do you think the train motor would hold up. Or would it be best to have the train not operated by a button, and running continuously for 3 hours each night.

In a low wind (not a storm) is the train likely to stay on the track, as I don’t want to have to keep having to put it back on the track.

Do you think a G Guage set up would likely be big enough to make a visual impact (I know this is subjective).

Is there anyone near to Southend on Sea that has a set up I could perhaps view.

I am adding a link to a video on YouTube of my 2022 display if you want to see the kind of space I have to play with…..Apologies my boring voice

Thank you

 

[Gizzy]

Hullo Mr Yellow Duck,

I've been running G scale for over 20 years now. I can tell you my local model shop in Bury St Edmunds had an LGB Stainz running for much longer in the shop window and it still runs to this day. The loco has been repaired though, but I don't think thew motor was replaced. The brass track was replaced after 20 years of running. In fact I have a short 2 ft length of this track which I use for programming DCC/MTS locos!

I don't think you will have any problems. LGB is fairly bomb proof and many of us have stock that is over 20 years old running on our layouts.

(By the way, I was born near Southend in Rochford, although I moved to Leeds by the time I was a year old....)

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Starting and stopping puts a lot more wear on the drivetrain.

Continuous slow operation is better, but you want to start and stop.

Be sure to have a slow start and slow stop circuit added, do not just turn power on and off.

Greg

 

[idlemarvel]

Ref the "ride-on" option, 5" gauge would be the minimum for ground mounted track and that would require at least 20' of space for a 180 degree turn. You might have the space but the other thing is it would need constant supervision. I can guarantee the kids (and adults) would love it but once loaded with car batteries and a few children you have something weighing several hundredweights made of metal which even when travelling at slow walking speed will hurt and possibly cause injuries. I have a few open days with my ride-on railway and you need to have a few eagle-eyed adults around for safety. So far I haven't needed to open the first aid box! Prior to that I had a small G gauge loop which had a controller the kids could use with one loco one direction one speed and a button for the whistle. The worst that can happen there is a derailment. Thomas the Tank Engine etc always go down well.
Keep up the good work!

 

[PhilP]

I would not pursue the ride-on route, as you will need to put a zero on the end of your costs..
As has been said, 5" is the smallest gauge practical, and takes a great deal of space. - You would need liability insurance (unfortunately) and might start to attract attention from a 'jobs-worth' from the council. Especially if a neighbour gets snotty about 'nuisance'.

Something G scale, Christmas (or Thomas) themed, will be more than adequate. - You can add to it, in coming years, or decide it is not for you and sell it on.

Either running continuously (it does not have to run fast) or timed/shuttle. - Better units, will allow for a controlled stop/start, rather than just a relay.
Don't make it too complicated.
Don't run it too fast.
If it will be running for several hours a day, then consider if you can turn the train and run in the opposite direction. - This will even the wear, a little, but for ten days before Christmas, is probably overkill?

Don't leave the train out, when you are not there / overnight.
Don't run in the heaviest of rain.

PhilP

 

[Yellowduck]

Thanks all….

When looking at a ride on train, it would not be a specific guage, it would be something I would build. Something like in the video below. However, I take on board the issues of size, noise, and possible injury.

Re the mention of units that allow a controlled or slow start, could someone please give me more details and recommend something. I will likely get a Christmas starter set, so I assume this will come with a very basic controller. Ideally I want something that can be just started with a push button, as opposed to a dial rheostat. I have used a soft start voltage regulator on my ferris wheel, so hope this may be suitable. I would plan to use the TRM1 timer board to supply power for a limited period, via the soft start regulator, to the rail control unit which I would set at the desired speed. Pressing the ‘start’ button on the control panel would then hopefully run the train for up to 120 seconds.

Do you think this would work, or is there a simpler way to achieve what I would like it to do……Also any thoughts as to the better durability of LGB against Piko or Bachmann based on my requirements and limited budget

Thank you…..

Speed Controller, DC 10-60V 12V 24V 48V 20A PWM DC Motor Speed Controller Soft Start Switch : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

Speed Controller, DC 10-60V 12V 24V 48V 20A PWM DC Motor Speed Controller Soft Start Switch : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

www.amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SJZT9ZK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[maxi-model]

Visual impact ? Yes, quite probably, "G Gauge" trains will appear quite impressive in size to small children. Small eyes will perceive them larger than you do. There are even larger things that will run on LGB track, and possibly some lower cost alternatives.

I Spent many a happy summer visiting my grandparents in Southend. Peter Pan's Playground and Hamlet Court Raceways. Max

 

[dunnyrail]

Hi All

Sorry for the long post……

I have joined for some advice if any are willing to give.

I build automatons and mechanical moving Christmas displays which I use to raise funds for Macmillan each November/December. In 2022 we raised £3400.
Our display is different than most, as children can activate the displays using push buttons to set them in motion, and although fairly simple, they are fun, and the kids (and parents) love them.

Each year I add several new items to the display, and initially, for 2023, thought of building a small ride on train powered by a car battery and motors, running on a track of conduit. The mechanics and track are fairly easy to arrange, but where I fall down is the large track radius that would be needed, and space is a little limited. A friend of mine suggested using a small G Guage set up, which could be controlled by a push button (using a relay timer) so when pressed, the train runs for a minute or so, then stops until the button is pressed again. The electrics are fine as I have this set up on most of my displays.

I would want to keep it as simple as possible, and as cheap as possible, as I fund all the builds myself, and nothing comes from any donations. I was thinking of getting a Christmas starter set (which seems to be around £300) and an extra 20’-30’ of straight track to make an elongated oval. There would be no points or crossings as it would need to be simple and run without issues.

So my questions at this stage are……

We operate the display for 3 hours each evening for approx 30 days. Assuming the button is pressed 50/60 times a night, with each press running the train for 1 minute, do you think the train motor would hold up. Or would it be best to have the train not operated by a button, and running continuously for 3 hours each night.

In a low wind (not a storm) is the train likely to stay on the track, as I don’t want to have to keep having to put it back on the track.

Do you think a G Guage set up would likely be big enough to make a visual impact (I know this is subjective).

Is there anyone near to Southend on Sea that has a set up I could perhaps view.

I am adding a link to a video on YouTube of my 2022 display if you want to see the kind of space I have to play with…..Apologies my boring voice

Thank you

As has been said stay well clear of ride-on, one of our members stockers has done a permanent G scale Display layout at Robertsbridge on the Kent and East Sussex Railway, he also did a Christmas display, all related to somewhere in this forum. Not sure if the Display still present but if you can contact hime sure he may give advice.

 

[Yellowduck]

Visual impact ? Yes, quite probably, "G Gauge" trains will appear quite impressive in size to small children. Small eyes will perceive them larger than you do. There are even larger things that will run on LGB track, and possibly some lower cost alternatives.

I Spent many a happy summer visiting my grandparents in Southend. Peter Pan's Playground and Hamlet Court Raceways. Max

Yes, been in Southend all my life! Peter Pans is now Adventure Island and a lot bigger, but has lost most of its charm.

You may possibly remember Never Never Land on the Cliffs? It used to have mechanised illuminated displays, but was taken down in the 80’s due to vandalism . Many of the people who visited our display last year said the mechanised displays reminded them a little of it

 

[idlemarvel]

Ref LGB or PIKO in terms of the code 332 brass track they are pretty much the same and both indestructible. PIKO starter sets are good value, the ones with a BR 80 0-6-0 tank engine can be found quite cheaply and contain everything you need including circle of track transformer controller etc. The BR 80 is a very robust model with no fiddly bits that kids would break off. It could be painted blue to resemble Thomas if you didn’t want to shell out for a Bachmann Thomas.

 

[Madman]

First, welcome to the forum. As far as advice goes, you will get plenty. We all like to hear ourselves.....

I showed your ride on train to SWMBO and told her that I am building one for our grandkids, well at least the younger ones. She asked where I was going to put it, then told her, before she could object, that the track was not a permanent thing. She just walked away as i was still explaining how I was going to do it, leaving me talking to myself.....

 

[PhilP]

Best way, Dan..
We normally get sensible answers, when we talk to ourselves..

When we don't, anymore. Then we are beyond help!

PhilP

 

[Yellowduck]

Ref LGB or PIKO in terms of the code 332 brass track they are pretty much the same and both indestructible. PIKO starter sets are good value, the ones with a BR 80 0-6-0 tank engine can be found quite cheaply and contain everything you need including circle of track transformer controller etc. The BR 80 is a very robust model with no fiddly bits that kids would break off. It could be painted blue to resemble Thomas if you didn’t want to shell out for a Bachmann Thomas.

Cheers Dave. The kids won’t get too near it as I rope off the display area as there are so many cables representing a trip hazard. They just have access to the control panel, candy cane dispenser, and Santa post box. I would like to add a few straights to the circle to give it a bit more distance, and also need the track elevated to about a metre in height. Anything I build has to be removable and relatively quick to assemble, as the wife wants her front garden looking normal for 10 months of the year

 

[idlemarvel]

First, welcome to the forum. As far as advice goes, you will get plenty. We all like to hear ourselves.....

I showed your ride on train to SWMBO and told her that I am building one for our grandkids, well at least the younger ones. She asked where I was going to put it, then told her, before she could object, that the track was not a permanent thing. She just walked away as i was still explaining how I was going to do it, leaving me talking to myself.....

Is that a yes then? I'm never quite sure how to interpret the silent treatment. In general I take it to mean sure go ahead I dare you...

 

[idlemarvel]

Cheers Dave. The kids won’t get too near it as I rope off the display area as there are so many cables representing a trip hazard. They just have access to the control panel, candy cane dispenser, and Santa post box. I would like to add a few straights to the circle to give it a bit more distance, and also need the track elevated to about a metre in height. Anything I build has to be removable and relatively quick to assemble, as the wife wants her front garden looking normal for 10 months of the year

Yes sure add a few more straights. Also kids seem to like tunnels. Elevated track would be a good idea as it would be running at their eye level. Maybe a bit less than a metre, 90cm? A couple of longish (2.4m x 0.8m) baseboards on trestles would be quick to make and assemble and would be enough room for an oval of track with approx 90cm straights and plenty of room for seasonal themed buildings and landscape in the middle.

 

[Yellowduck]

Yes sure add a few more straights. Also kids seem to like tunnels. Elevated track would be a good idea as it would be running at their eye level. Maybe a bit less than a metre, 90cm? A couple of longish (2.4m x 0.8m) baseboards on trestles would be quick to make and assemble and would be enough room for an oval of track with approx 90cm straights and plenty of room for seasonal themed buildings and landscape in the middle.

I like the idea of a board on trestles, and 2.4m long would give me a decent run. What is the minimum radius 180 degree you can get away with on G guage? ideally I would not want to use a board wider than about 3 feet, again for reasons of space.

 

[idlemarvel]

Really 600mm is minimum radius, so you would need those two 2.4mx 0.8m boards back to back to give you a width of 1.6m which gives you a reasonable gap between the track and the edge of the board.

 

[dunnyrail]

Really 600mm is minimum radius, so you would need those two 2.4mx 0.8m boards back to back to give you a width of 1.6m which gives you a reasonable gap between the track and the edge of the board.

Though it has been done in less but only usable trains were Feldbahn types. Article in German mag showed a layout.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The tighter the curves, the more wear on the rails and loco, but if just for the holidays, would not worry too much, just don't try a long, heavy train.

The question of electronics is important, and here in the US there are several options for soft start and stop.

You will have to research for the UK, keep asking around...

here's the type of thing you need:

RR Concepts StationMaster

Greg

 

[Yellowduck]

The tighter the curves, the more wear on the rails and loco, but if just for the holidays, would not worry too much, just don't try a long, heavy train.

The question of electronics is important, and here in the US there are several options for soft start and stop.

You will have to research for the UK, keep asking around...

here's the type of thing you need:

RR Concepts StationMaster

Greg

Thanks for this…..