Differences In Paint Colors/Southern Pacific Red

[AJtheTeacher]

Hello Fellow G Train Enthusiasts.

I am really dismayed at the vast differences in colors that manufacturers use on model trains. In my case I am painting just the daylight red stripe above the doors, on the side on the aluminum streamline Southern Pacific Sunset cars. I purchase an observation and a coach off of eBay, but I wanted more cars. So, I bought 3 other cars that were either broken or had messed up graphics and stripped the shells to bare aluminum.

My problem (which other enthusiasts may have encountered) is that the Southern Pacific red on the side does not match ANY paint that I use/used on any train.

I have tried painting on bare aluminum, primering 1st in white and primering in brown and then painting red as a top coat. Each one gives a different color in natural light.

After all this I have been somewhat successful. The color is a pretty close match in natural light but looks a little off under fluorescent light. (I kind of expected it to look different under fluorescent) I just wanted to talk to someone about my frustrations. Thanks and enjoy your trains! AJ the Teacher

 

[PhilP]

My other-half always says red is a fugitive colour, hence is one of the worst for fading, over time..

It would not surprise me if the cars, in real life, would present as different colours?

If you ask on the US Forum's, you might find a Ral-number for the color you want? - I believe 'Ral' is an international standard for colours?

PhilP

 

[playmofire]

My other-half always says red is a fugitive colour, hence is one of the worst for fading, over time..

It would not surprise me if the cars, in real life, would present as different colours?

If you ask on the US Forum's, you might find a Ral-number for the color you want? - I believe 'Ral' is an international standard for colours?

PhilP

Your wife is right, it is one of the worst for fading. My wife is an analytical chemist and used to work in a paint works who produced paint to order, e.g. for restoration purposes, she told me that red is a semi-transparent paint, hence the need for more coats to get a uniform colour and the proneness to fading. I can remember my father having to put three coats of paint on a door to get the colour uniform whereas two was fine with other colours.

 

[AJtheTeacher]

Thanks PhilP! AJ the Teacher

 

[playmofire]

After all this I have been somewhat successful. The color is a pretty close match in natural light but looks a little off under fluorescent light. (I kind of expected it to look different under fluorescent) I just wanted to talk to someone about my frustrations. Thanks and enjoy your trains! AJ the Teacher

To check a colour you need to look at it in north light because that is a more uniform light that light from other directions (that's why in the old days, and maybe still today, artists' studios and photographic workshops used to have north facing windows and rooflights, as did other occupations where uniform lighting was important.)

A light source affects how the human eye sees colours. Red under sodium light goes black, for example, while yellow under the same lighting goes white and white goes yellow. Mercury or today white LED lighting seems to show objects pretty much in their true colours.

 

[Eaglecliff]

To check a colour you need to look at it in north light because that is a more uniform light that light from other directions (that's why in the old days, and maybe still today, artists' studios and photographic workshops used to have north facing windows and rooflights, as did other occupations where uniform lighting was important.)

A light source affects how the human eye sees colours. Red under sodium light goes black, for example, while yellow under the same lighting goes white and white goes yellow. Mercury or today white LED lighting seems to show objects pretty much in their true colours.

I quote from "Midland Style," the standard work on the Midland Railway (UK):- "The Engineer" authoritatively recorded in the latter part of 1895 that two primary coats of lead coloured paint were followed by four coats of purple-brown or chocolate and finally one coat of a mixture of crimson lake and purple brown, which produced the standard tint... five coats of varnish were applied and 4-6 days were allowed for drying..." I seem to remember reading that the transfers (decals) were applied part way through varnishing to indicate when re-varnishing was called for, before the basic colour began to change.

 

[Southwestforests]

It would not surprise me if the cars, in real life, would present as different colours?

In 1980s I was custom painting a bunch of a friend's N scale ATSF cars to N&W and Jack had a slide of N&W passenger cars in a yard in Roanoke with 5 clearly discernible reds.

 

[dunnyrail]

I learnt a long time back to not get too agitated about colour matching. The real thing can and does change over years in service, weathering, brake dust, load dust of locality. By that I mean a coal mining area will have dark line side dust whereas a cement or stone area will be lighter dust. These can all have an effect on passenger trains as they pass through these areas. Then we come to cleaning with some trains just getting a brush with dirty water others with chemical concoctions of varying types either from hand brushing or mechanical plants. These effects can over time change colours from how they looked when out shopped after a repaint. Then we get to that paint job and the effects of slightly different mixes of colour pigments. It is all a big minefield and not worth the bother of getting too agitated about. Near enoughish works better (well it does for me) and can be an added interest in itself.

 

[AJtheTeacher]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, ideas and contributions!

I actually resolved the color issue and have a color match! I know that the way I resolved it will not work under most circumstances.

I used shiny aluminum panels and painted spray-out test panels checking for color saturation etc. The color that I chose to replicate was used by Aristo-Craft on the aluminum Southern Pacific Sunset Limited streamline passenger cars, on the border just above the windows and maybe on the bottom of the Southern Pacific Black Widow FA-1/FB-1 locomotive. (I am also about to change the paint on an FB-1 to match so that I may have a 2nd SP Black Widow FB-1.)

I matched the color by using a Krylon camouflage flat khaki kind of tan color and then 3 coats of red chili pepper to match the factory color. The color matches in natural light, LED and fluorescent. It took too long to match but at least I can replicate it. Thanks everyone for your support!

Enjoy your hobby as much as possible. AJ the Teacher

 

[Paul M]

Would anyone actually be able to tell if a shade of colour is wrong? Obviously if it were meant to be red, and is was painted pink, it would be noticeable, but a slight shade difference, no one will notice.

 

[trammayo]

Our hobby gets madder every day!

 

[PhilP]

Our hobby gets madder every day!

Oh, I do hope so!

 

[trammayo]

Oh, I do hope so!

I was just seeing red there Phil!

 

[David1226]

Our hobby gets madder every day!

Isn't madder a shade of red?

David

 

[trammayo]

Isn't madder a shade of red?

David

That it is!

 

[AJtheTeacher]

You guys mad me smile!!! (I know, I mispelled intentionally!) AJ the Teacher

 

[Southwestforests]

Isn't madder a shade of red?

David

Several decades back there was a famous model railway named the Madder Valley.
Wonder what Google can locate about it?

Madder Valley Railway

pendonmuseum.com

John Ahern’s Madder Valley Railway is on permanent display.

Built entirely by John Ahern, this layout dates from the 1930s and is an historical relic of the early days of scenic railway modelling. It pioneered the idea of scenic craftsmanship. It showed others what could be done and many model light railway and branch line layouts built in the last fifty years are its descendants.

It was not an absolutely precise dimensionally accurate replica of a real prototype and featured models of narrow gauge locomotives from the Isle of Man, Wales and Devon built to run on 16.5mm gauge track alongside models of standard gauge stock. The buildings were based on buildings that had caught John Ahern’s fancy “Most of my buildings are derived from something, but they are not exact copies”.

 

[David1226]

Several decades back there was a famous model railway named the Madder Valley.
Wonder what Google can locate about it?

Madder Valley Railway

pendonmuseum.com

This railway is on display at the Pendon Museum, located about five miles from my home.

David

 

[Paul M]

This railway is on display at the Pendon Museum, located about five miles from my home.

David

At risk of thread drift, well worth a visit

 

[David1226]

At risk of thread drift, well worth a visit

Madder Valley has been the inspiration for much of my railway modelling.

David